What’s Different About Mindfulness for Men?

Within the chronically-online world of 2025, it’s virtually unimaginable to keep away from the saturating presence of podcasters, pundits, and social-media influencers within the “manosphere”—individuals who promise males admiration, well being, and success, however who typically have concepts of masculinity that go away males feeling much more wounded and remoted. Jon Macaskill and Will Schneider from Men Talking Mindfulness are devoting themselves to reaching males the place they’re, of their wrestle, confusion, and eager for a lifetime of that means and connection. On this wide-ranging dialog with former Aware editor Amber Tucker, Macaskill and Schneider supply a perspective on what mindfulness for males can present in a world that wants genuine males greater than ever. They usually share a imaginative and prescient of what it’s to be a person that’s much less concerning the efficiency of manliness and extra about being genuinely resilient, clever, and related.

Two Paths to Discovering Mindfulness

Amber: I might love to start out by asking about every of your paths to mindfulness. Jon, I do know that you just’re a retired US Navy SEAL Commander, and Will got here from being a yoga trainer and a coach—two paths that lots of people wouldn’t see as meshing naturally collectively. How did you personally uncover mindfulness, and what did it take to combine mindfulness into your lives?

Jon: My path to mindfulness, and I feel Will and I’ve this in widespread, is that it form of got here out of necessity. I had struggled with some anxiousness, with survivor’s guilt, melancholy, after which over and above that, as a SEAL, you’re educated to push via ache—I might like to say ignore stress, however I feel typically we even convey stress onto ourselves after which simply preserve going. 

However finally, you understand, that strategy broke me. I wasn’t capable of deal with it anymore, bodily, mentally, and emotionally. After I obtained to a degree the place all that was at a peak—the place I used to be fighting the post-traumatic stress and sleepless nights—I had mindfulness launched to me by a counselor. I first laughed at him as a result of I assumed that, being a particular operator, I didn’t want mindfulness and meditation. He form of flipped the script on me and he mentioned, “Properly, what if I had a capsule that I might give to you that may change your efficiency?” As particular operators, we’re at all times in search of one thing that’s going to enhance our efficiency. And as you can guess, that capsule wasn’t a capsule in any respect. It was mindfulness and meditation. 

So, as a result of it was offered to me as a “efficiency enhancement,” then I attempted it. And lengthy story quick, I attempted for a number of months, and it did assist me to deal with the stress and anxiousness higher. I obtained that efficiency enchancment that he had promised me, however I additionally was capable of handle stress. At first I didn’t belief it, but it surely gave me an actual shot at not simply slowing down, but in addition being current. What I had perceived as a form of weak spot, training mindfulness and meditation, wasn’t that in any respect. It was a power, and it gave me these instruments to face what I’d been avoiding. It gave me the instruments to manage my feelings higher. I wouldn’t say that I’m an knowledgeable on regulating my feelings, however I’m higher. After which to reconnect: reconnect with my household, reconnect with associates. I feel most significantly, the flexibility to actually join with my genuine self. 

To combine that into my life, it took some self-discipline to do constantly. It’s straightforward to do mindfulness or to be conscious and observe meditation a few times after which possibly a few days in a row after which drop off. However by staying constant, making it a each day observe, it’s modified how I lead, how I father, and finally how I stay.

Will: I actually discovered meditation first, even earlier than yoga, again round 2006. I used to be at a degree in my life the place I simply moved to New York Metropolis, and I used to be pursuing life as an actor right here within the metropolis: auditioning, coaching, doing a number of theater, I began doing tv. I simply wished to be extra current, and I additionally wanted to handle the anxiousness that comes with efficiency. I began with Transcendental Meditation (TM) and it began to assist. Actually, it was difficult to sit down and meditate twice a day for 20 minutes with the TM alone, not having a gaggle that I’m meditating with, or not having the net alternatives like we do these days. It was very irritating to start with. I’m having all these completely different experiences, my thoughts simply retains wandering, and I don’t really feel like I’m doing something. Then a couple of yr and a half later, after the sputtering begins with making an attempt to work with meditation, then I actually grew to become extra constant. It helped when I discovered yoga across the similar time, particularly yoga asana observe. There was this complete mindful movement inside me, making an attempt to maintain my thoughts. On the similar time, I used to be taking good care of my physique. It felt like, That is my observe. It’s been an unimaginable profit to me. It nonetheless is, on daily basis that I observe. Now I’ve been with the [Men Talking Mindfulness] present, and the work that I do with coaching, and I incorporate all of those abilities into what I’m educating right here now.

Beginning the Males Speaking Mindfulness Podcast

Amber: Let’s speak about Men Talking Mindfulness, the podcast that you just co-host. It’s described as tackling troublesome topics like loneliness, trauma, dependancy, the unhealthy parts of masculinity. Might you speak a bit bit about a few of the most transformative conversations that you just’ve had? How have your visitors or listeners highlighted the ability of mindfulness and addressing these sorts of challenges?

Will: We’ve actually “attacked” mindfulness from so many alternative angles! And with Jon and I each being practitioners, we’ve got a number of nice authors that come on the present. The entire present has impacted my life, as a result of I’m a scholar first—the knowledgeable, if you’ll, of mindfulness who’s at all times studying. For me, a few of the ones that actually stick out had been No More Mr. Nice Guy with Dr. Robert Glover. Studying his guide and seeing what the entire “good man” factor is, after which deconstructing why this complete nice-guy way of living just isn’t the best way to totally embrace all the ability of your masculinity, was actually profound for me. 

After which we had Jon Eldredge on the present, New York Occasions bestseller. I beloved his guide, Wild at Heart. That dialog with him included understanding the three core rules that stay within the soul of masculinity: at all times having a way of journey, having that relationship in your life, and having a battle to battle, having your mission. I simply got here again from a two-week journey to Peru, which is sort of an journey. I’m nonetheless engaged on the connection half, however I undoubtedly have the opposite two fairly synced up. I preserve all of the books that I’ve learn for the present! One after the opposite of our visitors have simply been so useful. Loads of them come again to the core rules of mindfulness, being current, permitting that presence to gentle up your biology, and the nice biology that we’ve got that actually makes us, like, these great human beings that we might be if we let go of the stress and anxiousness.

Jon: One dialog that’s leaping to thoughts proper now’s our dialog with the 2 Eds, Dr. Ed Adams and Ed Frauenheim. They co-wrote Reinventing Masculinity, the place they challenged the concept that males have to suit into this inflexible mildew that you just’re both powerful otherwise you’re not a person. That stood out to me, and it struck a chord with our viewers as a result of we heard from males who mentioned issues like, “I assumed I used to be damaged as a result of I didn’t match the stereotype,” or “Now I notice there’s power in being genuine and being who I’m.”

We additionally had Jocko Willink on, fellow retired Navy SEAL. There have been a few highly effective moments in that speak about balancing depth and presence. There’s lots of people who suppose you possibly can’t be intense and current concurrently, and the way mindfulness can really make you a stronger chief. We’ve had Dr. Mark Gordon on. And Mark shared about all these completely different sorts of groundbreaking insights on the brain-body connection. He’s a neuroendocrinologist. We’ve had Dr. Rob Kelly come on 3 times. And he’s talked about objective and recovering from dependancy. We’ve had multi-time Olympic champion, Apolo Ono, come on to mirror about how mindfulness formed his Olympic profession after which his transition afterward. We simply had Dan Millman on to clarify The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, his guide. 

We’ve even had Congressman Tim Ryan on to speak about bringing mindfulness into politics. We’ve had Steven Kotler on to share how move science connects on to efficiency and presence, and the way that’s all underpinned by mindfulness. So sorry, a number of identify drop in there, however like Will mentioned, this present has modified the lives of a lot of our viewers, but it surely’s additionally modified our lives. We now have realized a lot about mindfulness, the way it’s tied into management, the way it’s tied into wealth, how it’s tied into well being, how it’s tied into nearly the whole lot that we do and it’s modified us for the higher. It’s my spiel.

Will: Yeah, we’re just like the little guinea pigs for the present. We simply strive stuff on, speak about it. So it’s been fairly enjoyable to be the scholars and the lecturers in what we’ve created.

The place to Begin If You’re Curious About Mindfulness

Amber: That’s unimaginable. Thanks a lot for each sharing a few of the breadth of various voices and backgrounds and areas of experience that you’ve on the podcast. Undoubtedly many acquainted names there for the Mindful reading viewers, and likewise a number of new names. So I feel that’s fairly thrilling. You had been simply referring to… what listeners have shared with you about how the podcast has helped them to find mindfulness—possibly assist for the primary time, begin to construct a each day observe, strengthen relationships, even assist to avoid wasting marriages and a number of different outcomes that I’m certain you’ve heard from folks. I’m wondering: Why do you suppose the observe of mindfulness is resonating so strongly with so many males, significantly on this second in time?

Jon: I’ll go on that one first, Will, should you’re cool with that. What I discover fascinating is that mindfulness, should you actually return in historical past, it resonated with males. We had the monks who introduced it into the world in a number of alternative ways, however we additionally had warriors, these warriors that males at present examine. 

We learn concerning the Spartans, we examine samurai, and in a roundabout way they practiced meditation earlier than they went on the battlefield in order that they might be current, in order that they might be calm. Quite than bumping chests and smelling these smelling salts earlier than they went out, they calmed themselves down. 

I feel males are realizing that this playbook of suck it up or man up, it doesn’t work anymore. And males are realizing that we are able to present vulnerability and authenticity as a result of suck it up or man up results in damaged marriages. It results in psychological well being issues or challenges, and it leaves a number of males struggling in silence. 

I feel mindfulness resonates as a result of it doesn’t ask you to surrender toughness. Lots of people suppose that should you observe mindfulness, that you just’re giving up toughness, and also you don’t. I feel it actually lets you redefine what toughness appears like. It takes actual power to be current, to really feel your feelings and to manage these feelings. I don’t need to “management them,” however regulate them. After which it additionally takes actual power and braveness to face your challenges with out numbing out, with out alcohol, with out medicine. In the event you regularly numb these challenges, then you definately’re not going to come back out of them. And that’s why I feel guys just like the names that I discussed earlier than, like Jaco, Olympians like Apollo, these big-time thought leaders like Steven Kotler, after which congressmen like Tim Ryan—I feel that’s what they’re discovering worth on this proper now.

Will: I feel the world is simply experiencing a degree of chaos that it’s not used to, as a result of what I’m seeing, I’m certain we’re all feeling it, is due to the infiltration of know-how in our lives, like all over the place, with social media, with the speed of messaging that you just get via, whether or not it’s textual content or e-mail or Instagram or no matter platform you’re on, it’s identical to message, message, and message. There appears to be a better demand for our consideration in so many alternative locations. 

Mindfulness is that this pure stability that’s coming into society, as a result of the whole lot has its reverse. If chaos is going on, then what’s the equalizer? I really feel for human beings, a number of it’s mindfulness. How can we grow to be not so simply triggered? How can we handle our emotions? And mindfulness helps us to do this. 

I feel additionally for males specifically, the best way that we’ve labored historically because the industrial revolution has modified dramatically, as nicely. It requires a complete different set of abilities that we didn’t have to activate if we had been simply doing a daily nine-to-five within the manufacturing facility. Additionally the roles within the household have modified. The household dynamics have modified. We now have two working mother and father fairly often, and what does that require? That requires much more communication. How are we speaking? Mindfulness for males helps males to grasp themselves on a extra deep emotional degree. So that they’re not a slave to their feelings, not so simply annoyed or anxious or wired, and actually being more practical in no matter atmosphere they’re in, whether or not it’s the household, whether or not it’s work, whether or not it was with their youngsters, whether or not it’s some type of group occasion. So mindfulness helps the world in so some ways, however males for certain, as a result of these are abilities that weren’t taught in class. I imply, a few of them are actually, however no one over 20 years outdated or 25 has actually been taught these abilities in class, and individuals are in search of this place to study these instruments. That’s one factor that we’re doing, and it’s one factor that every one the mindfulness lecturers on the market are doing—serving to folks to combine these instruments of their lives to allow them to take care of this new society that we’re in.

Amber: I actually admire each of you chatting with that, particularly with the predominance of instruments like mindfulness and meditation seeming to be marketed towards ladies nowadays. It’s good to have a reminder that that hasn’t at all times been the case. And really mindfulness is a software that’s for everyone, no matter how we’ve been educated, our gender, or something like that. It could actually profit all of us.  

Jon: I simply need to leap in simply with one factor. I’m glad you mentioned that piece. As a result of the visitors that we talked about are all males. I feel each single one among them that we’ve talked about had been all males and much more particularly, white males. We even have had a number of ladies and people of coloration  on. Theresa Larson is an efficient good friend of ours. We’ve had her on to speak about being a conscious mom, which doesn’t sound like one thing that may go on a males’s present, however we want males to grasp what a mom goes via. We’ve had Ali and Atman Smith and Andrés González from the Holistic Life Foundation. We’ve had Uma Naidu to come back on and speak about mindful eating. She’s a nutritionist. So I do need to guarantee that we seize that the present is a males’s present, however we’ve got a number of ladies listeners, and we’ve got a number of ladies visitors, as nicely.

Amber: Yeah, thanks for that. You’ve had Amishi Jha as nicely, I feel, proper?

Jon: Sure, she and General Walt Piatt.

Amber: That should’ve been a strong dialog. 

Will: Oh, yeah. They spoke so clearly, and it’s superior to have such a decorated general, like actually being an enormous advocate for mindfulness, as a result of it impacts something you do, no matter what you’re making an attempt to do with it, it has an unimaginable affect. And I’m glad increasingly more individuals are waking as much as this.

Many Completely different Methods to Method Mindfulness for Males

Amber: Yeah, bringing it into these contexts just like the military the place folks each actually need it for efficiency, and likewise only for psychological well being and all the opposite good issues that mindfulness may also help with. You’ve had a variety of very influential visitors, best-selling authors, Olympians, big enterprise leaders, politicians, many different folks. And the way do you suppose that these various voices are contributing to your mission of adjusting the narrative round masculinity and psychological well being for males? A few of the folks that you just talked with in your present is probably not mindfulness lecturers as such, however they’re nonetheless selling information and views that might match beneath the umbrella of mindfulness. Is that an correct approach of characterizing them?

Will: Yeah, I feel the best way we’ve approached the present is that there are such a lot of completely different angles you possibly can strategy mindfulness. We convey on consultants to assist us resolve a selected drawback, or give us some perception into one thing, or to convey consciousness to one thing that may be helpful in our lives. 

From the masculinity viewpoint, we’re taught by our fathers, our coaches, our uncles, our brothers, simply to be powerful. However the twenty first century is demanding better abilities, and actually that huge ability is being extra emotionally clever. So we’re making an attempt to open that dialog and present how extremely highly effective it’s whenever you grow to be extra conscious of that complete, your thoughts, your feelings and your actions, how one can actually begin to change issues. It simply takes a bit little bit of observe. The purpose for us is only for males to have happier, more healthy, extra peaceable lives due to what they’re studying from our present.

Jon: Yeah, and I’ll add to that in…we’ve obtained this swath of various visitors coming to speak about completely different approaches. I feel males typically have a look at these guys, or possibly they have a look at me and Will and different males that they appear as much as, they usually say, This man has all of it collectively. What’s improper with me? After which they hear these excessive achievers admit that they wrestle, too. It normalizes the dialog, exhibits that mindfulness is for everybody. Regardless of your background, irrespective of your definition of success, we’re all human beings and all of us have struggles. And it doesn’t matter what your wrestle is, mindfulness just isn’t essentially going to alleviate that wrestle, but it surely’s going to assist in managing it.

Will: I imply, one of many rules of compassion is widespread humanity. We create an area for widespread humanity so folks can connect with different human beings which have been struggling, as nicely. One factor I’ve seen with all the nice leaders we’ve had on the present is that with a purpose to entry that greatness, vulnerability and authenticity are important. It’s a must to take a real stock of your self with a purpose to entry and unleash that subsequent degree of greatness. 

What’s Forward?

Amber: If we glance forward, what do you hope that the long-term affect of Males Speaking Mindfulness will likely be?

Jon: My hope that we assist to shift the tradition so folks see vulnerability, presence, and compassion as strengths, not weaknesses. Let’s say in 10 years, extra individuals are educating their youngsters mindfulness. Extra leaders are main with that emotional intelligence. Possibly firms are hiring extra folks primarily based on their emotional intelligence and never simply their resume. After which fewer individuals are struggling in silence. Then I really feel that we’ve carried out our job. Each one who listens and modifications, even in a small approach, impacts their household, their office, their group. Over time, these ripples add as much as possibly altering a society, possibly altering the nation, altering the world.

Will: I don’t have rather more to say than what Jon has mentioned. It’s thrilling to see the affect we’re already having. If we’re capable of have this type of ubiquitous affect with the lads which are plugging in now, it’s thrilling to see the place it could actually go. It’s only a matter of amplifying this platform and sharing our platform for different folks to plug in. We’re simply nonetheless holding area for folks to journey via, get what they want and go on the market and be extra conscious and stay extra compassionately and be higher leaders and be accountable for how they’re displaying up on the earth. I see my relationships in my rapid household and my rapid associates altering. I feel we’ve got one thing to do with that, it’s good to see that affect.

Amber: Properly, I feel should you’re really beginning to change minds and lives inside your circles and your loved ones, that’s virtually as huge as altering the world, actually. For my part, that’s deep change. These are individuals who wouldn’t faux altering in entrance of you.

Will: Yeah, that’s true.

Amber: I feel it’s actually highly effective and actually helpful how a lot you’ve grown what you’re doing and all of the folks that you just’re reaching. So thanks for all of the work that you just do. I’d love to complete off on a notice of serving to possibly just a few extra folks, just a few extra males to find mindfulness. Once you’re speaking with different males who could be new to mindfulness, may wanna give it a strive, is there a primary observe that you’ve, like a kind of observe or an train that you just advocate simply to offer them a primary style of what that seems like and assist them get began?

Will: Yeah, we’ve been main this meditation course via Males Speaking Mindfulness for the final yr and a half. We’re really gonna launch a brand new course coming quickly. What we’ve seen from all of the stuff that we studied from males is the very first thing which you could actually do to assist or have a major affect in your life is discovering your breath and slowing down your breath and attending to know your breath. I can’t imagine the unimaginable affect in just some weeks of attending to know your breath and dealing along with your breath a bit bit via completely different respiration practices. The sunshine bulbs begin going off, as a result of whenever you get calm and you start to make use of your breath as a software to get calm, you begin to see: Oh my God, that’s anxiousness. Why do I’ve so many expectations? Oh my God, I’m a perfectionist. The entire world begins to alter. 

We speak concerning the organic impacts on a regular basis about mindfulness, however attending to calm drops us into who we’re, our biology, the second, after which we are able to begin to discover a new path ahead. And it’s easy and it’s free, and you are able to do it on a regular basis in as little as 30 seconds or a minute, or you are able to do it for an hour.

Jon: I might add on with the breath—completely absolutely imagine that’s an excellent place to start out—however I’ll say, along with his yoga courses, and males will are available in there they usually need to be good on day one. And I feel a number of males do the identical factor with meditation. I did the identical. It’s a must to begin easy. One of many greatest errors males make is pondering that they should meditate for an hour a day on day one, or have some good setup, proper? However taking simply 5 gradual acutely aware breaths, like Will mentioned, everytime you really feel wired or overwhelmed, that may make it easier to to get to calm. That alone can shift your nervous system from that fight-or-flight into that calm and readability. Then from there, you possibly can discover longer, extra in-depth meditations. And we’ve shared a few of these on our present. We now have some on our YouTube channel. However begin small after which keep constant. It’s very very similar to the fitness center. In the event you go into the fitness center, and also you crush a two-hour exercise and then you definately don’t work out once more for 2 weeks, that two-hours exercise was for naught. In the event you sit down and meditate and also you meditate for an hour after which don’t meditate once more for weeks, that meditation was for naught. You keep devoted and also you do 10 minutes, even 5 minutes a day. You keep in step with it. You’re gonna get extra from that. So I say begin small, begin easy, after which keep constant.

Will: We speak about change and transformation, and the C phrase comes up each single time. Each visitor says: Be constant. Choose one factor. And repeat that factor for weeks. Get the boldness and the braveness. It’s been a number of enjoyable to have the ability to try this and find a way do it successfully and see lives remodel.

The MTM Origin Story + Ultimate Ideas

Amber: Is there anything that you just wished to say or simply briefly speak about that I didn’t point out earlier than we shut issues up right here?

Will: I feel to assist anyone that’s like studying this text and desires to start out someplace or has been mindfulness-curious for some time, or possibly they’ve tried and dabbled and struggled. I need to say: Get round different folks which are doing it or join a group. That group vitality round mindfulness could be very highly effective and really encouraging and also you’re extra prone to present up. Once more, that widespread humanity could be very useful for folks since you don’t really feel so alone. You don’t really feel silly or unaccomplished or unsuccessful. You’re like, Oh, nicely, you’re fighting that, too. Okay, that is simply how it’s typically. So I feel that’s one factor I feel folks ought to know as they go on this journey.

Jon: I’ll throw in there simply form of the origin story of the present. We now have a mutual good friend, a army member who launched us to at least one one other. He heard that I used to be into the mindfulness area, and he had simply carried out a retreat with Will. What was it carried out in Peru, Will? I don’t know.

Will: No, I used to be in Bermuda, his identify is Scott Tucker. We obtained to offer a bit shout out to Scott Tucker however yeah, we’re in Bremuda, however go forward, Jon.

Jon: Okay, so Scott had simply completed this retreat in Bermuda, comes again, he’s like, Hey, you’ve obtained to fulfill this man Will, introduces us. I’m going via my army transition, so I’m getting launched to a complete lot of individuals in numerous industries. Scott introduces me to Will, and I’ve a telephone name with him and on the finish of the dialog, Will says, Okay, nicely, when are we going to speak subsequent? And each time we spoke, Will would say, Hey, when are we going to speak subsequent? So we had been having these telephone calls as soon as a month about mindfulness and meditation, speaking about our revelations, our challenges, new practices that we’ve discovered, no matter, after which COVID hit. I used to be watching Will on Instagram, and since Will is a yoga teacher, a number of his work needed to go digital. So I reached out to Will, I used to be like, Hey, man, what if we began a meditation and mindfulness Instagram Reside the place we mainly simply have those self same telephone calls that we had been having, however we’ve got them on Instagram Reside? So we tried it, and we had like, six folks tune in for the primary few exhibits. Then we found out find out how to rip the Instagram Reside audio off and create the podcast. We thought possibly we’d get extra listeners as a podcast. So in case your readers return and take heed to a few of our first exhibits, you’ll hear that the audio is approach worse. Now we document with skilled mics and headphones and considerably of a studio. Our rooms are arrange like studios, but it surely began actually tough. It began as an concept that spawned from COVID primarily and has been happening for 5 years since then. It’s gone via a number of iterations of various audio software program and producers and completely different video software program. However we’ve come a good distance, and in and of itself, the present is a mindfulness observe. We take note of modifications. In order that’s a fast down and soiled dump of our origin story, if you’ll, if you would like it to incorporate the story in any respect.

Amber: Thanks for filling in that hole, Jon. I feel there have been hundreds of podcasts born throughout the pandemic, and also you’re one of many ones that has survived, and I’m certain that all the mindfulness that goes into it’s a huge consider that.

Will: Yeah, and I feel it’s additionally one factor that’s actually helped us preserve the torch lit is us working collectively. I don’t know if this may be powerful to do alone, as a result of it’s a protracted haul to get the place we’re. Jon and I encourage one another, preserve one another within the enviornment. Now we’re 5 years later having a broader affect. We now have a group that’s serving to us to develop, as nicely. So it’s simply superior to see the place it’s at present.

Jon: In accordance with Feed Spot, which is a rating of forms of podcasts within the class of mindfulness for 2025, we had been ranked quantity three on the earth by iHeartRadio. We had been listed as one of many prime 10 mindfulness podcasts within the nation. After which globally, we’re within the prime 1.5% of podcasts worldwide. So fairly pleased with that. We’ve come a good distance, and we haven’t arrived. We’re gonna proceed to press. 

Will: Yeah, thanks a lot, for actual. It’s an enormous assist to get this on the market.

Amber: Thanks each. It’s been so great to collaborate, wherever we are able to over the past couple of years. I’ve actually loved it and appreciated it after we get to do issues collectively. I can’t wait to see what’s subsequent for every of you and for Males Speaking Mindfulness.